Obligatory star wars post (Chock full of spoilers)

[chrisvenus]

This is the post discussing various plot points of the film. There will be nothing in here really that isn't spoiler. Really don't read on unless you have seen the film or just don't care about spoilers... And of course don't read the comments because they're likely to be as bad. :)


I'm not sure where to start so I'll pick a random spot...

Is Palpatine Anakin's father in as far as he has one? I got the impression he was. The scene in the theatre or whatever he describes the sith lord guy who had mastered the force enough that he could make midichlorians conceive a child or something and that the only person he taught this skill to was his apprentice who then killed him. The smile on his face make me think that palpatine was that apprentice which leaves him as the only one with the knowledge of how to create a child in that way. And given anakin was created in that way it just made me think that perhaps palpatine had done that. I mentioned this to quisalan who thought I was reading a bit much in so I thought I'd get other opinions.


The other thing that is right at the top of my mind right now is darth vader angsting. That was just so wrong. I did like the fact palpatine told him that he had killed padme to complete his journey to the dark side. The anger and whatever were great tools. I just didn't like to see darth vader throwing his hands to the sky and screaming "Nooo!!!!!" in a really whiny teenager kind of way. Darth vader should never have been a whiny teenager. He should have come into the world as a dark looming threatening and scary presence. I'm just not goign to be able to get that image out of my head ever.

Imperial Officer: Lord Vader, our scouts have searched Dantooine. There is evidence of a rebel base but it has been abandoned for some time. The princess has lied to us.
Lord Vader: Noooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



The emotional scenes in the film were badly scripted. Anakin/Padme were thankfully short usually and made a lot better by the fact that Padme was actually not even trying to be all lovey dovey some of the time. I really liked the way in one of the discussions anakin says something like "I think you're beautiful because I love you" and she replies with something like "Oh, so love has blinded you and I'm not really beautiful". It was kind of better than "Oh, padme!" "Oh, ani!"

Umm... what else was there? The death of the jedi was fantastic. Such an act of betrayal, made all the more personal by the scene between obi-wan and the clone troopers just before he went down to the planet (mustaffa?) when the clone troopers said something like "Have we ever not been there when you needed us?" I have to admit that I did get a little emotional when I saw all the jedi being cut down, some of them fighting back against their allies and some of them just being shot in the back before they even knew what was going on. To me that was the most emotional scene in the film. Forget the love scenes and all that stuff, the death of the Jedi Order was, to me, the most potent scene in the film.


And now a question about force use. Why, at the beginning of the film, when obi-wan had all the little droids on his space ship did he not just use the force to sweep them off? And in general why did they not use the force a bit more in that battle? I'm sure that they could have done a lot more cool stuff if they'd been happy to just use the force to knock the droids sideways to crash into each other or whatever. I don't think that's any more darkside than doing it in a fight when you are in hand to hand combat.


The last thing that I think I'll mention is that I loved the parallel's between that film and the original trilogy. Starting with the anakin/Dooku fight which was a perfect match to the Luke/Vader at the end of Jedi. The moment the chair turned round with Palpatine in it I thought it and as the fight progressed with palpatine egging on anakin i just thought cool. And then the bit of the scene where anakin had cut off his hands and had him at his mercy he had exactly the same choice that luke did when he had vader at his mercy.

There were several other bits that reminded me of the previous films too. Anakin saying to Amidala "Join me and we can rule the galaxy" was totally the same offer that vader made to luke. And the final fight betweeen obi wan and anakin reminded me of the cloud city fight. And yoda dropping out of the hatch after his palpatine fight to the space ship below reminded me of the rescue of luke after the cloud city fight.

I suspect one of the reasons I liked it a lot was due to my fanboyish spotting of all the similarities and I really love the whole "history repeating" with parallels and all that kind of thing.

There is probably so much more to say but that will do for now.

And as before I loved the manipulations of palpatine in his rise to power. I wasn't overly keen on the apprenticeship of Anakin but that's because it was a one on one scene and... Gah! sea_of_flame, you've made me thinking slashy thoughts about that scene because the scripting and acting was about as good as the love scenes. :)

So yeah, feel free to be as spoilerish as you want in your comments since I've given more than adequate spoiler warning here, I feel. :)

Update:

Oh, my god, I can't believe I forgot this one...

Children. The word you are looking for, Luca, is children. Not younglings. Children. Then people might stop laughing whenever you say "Anakin killed younglings!" and start to actually see the emotional impact you are going for. For the love of god, I'm sure you didn't want to say "he killed children" because it is politically incorrect but, oh god, just why? why? WHY?

Comments

[davedevil.livejournal.com]

Yeah, the Vader as Vader stuff was the big wierdness, but in keeping with pulp stories. When he has nothign to love for what else is there to do...

mmmm

Question for you, woudl you go see it again in the cinema?

[chrisvenus]

Yup. :)

Partly because they are doing a poster offer for every time I come see it again. And partly because despite my gripes above I still loved the film. There were only a few scenes that were particularly bad and even those I was already filtering through my rose tinted glasses. Next time round I can have those scenes pre-cued in my head and they will be even better for a second viewing.

[twicedead.livejournal.com]

yes, I want to see it again... and then hopefully in IMAX, and then hopefully in 3D IMAX.

[twicedead.livejournal.com]

Is Palpatine Anakin's father in as far as he has one?

I got that impression too... and the smirk when he said that the guy was killed by his apprentice... lovely.


The other thing that is right at the top of my mind right now is darth vader angsting.

Then he was still anakin, after that yell, he was the Vader we knew, closed down, only the dark side to live for... until he was awakened by Luke... that's why Luke was a threat to the emperor, he could bring back the good.

The emotional scenes in the film were badly scripted.

Love is badly scripted. People say mushy things. That seemed real to me.

The death of the jedi was fantastic.

I loved the way that the clones reponded to the Chancellor as "Yes, my lord"... this was deep inside them all along.


And now a question about force use. Why, at the beginning of the film, when obi-wan had all the little droids on his space ship did he not just use the force to sweep them off? And in general why did they not use the force a bit more in that battle? I'm sure that they could have done a lot more cool stuff if they'd been happy to just use the force to knock the droids sideways to crash into each other or whatever. I don't think that's any more darkside than doing it in a fight when you are in hand to hand combat.

Maybe concentrating too hard on flying?

I suspect one of the reasons I liked it a lot was due to my fanboyish spotting of all the similarities and I really love the whole "history repeating" with parallels and all that kind of thing.

Nods fervently

Children. The word you are looking for, Luca, is children. Not younglings. Children. Then people might stop laughing whenever you say "Anakin killed younglings!" and start to actually see the emotional impact you are going for. For the love of god, I'm sure you didn't want to say "he killed children" because it is politically incorrect but, oh god, just why? why? WHY?

Otherwise it becomes a 15.

[chrisvenus]

and the smirk when he said that the guy was killed by his apprentice... lovely

Yeah, it was great. I was getting hugely distracted in that scene though by trying to work out what the hell the performance they were watching was. I'd got as far as huge balls of water with things swimming in them and occasionally jumping from ball to ball. Its not important what it was but it seemed kind of cool.

Then he was still anakin, after that yell, he was the Vader we knew

Yeah, that works. My problem was not that it wasn't real but that he looked like vader so I have this image of Vader standing there angsting. It was a powerful moment though, the emperor crushing his last bit of hope and goodness by telling him that he killed the only thing he truly cared for apart from palpatine and thus destroying anakin utterly.

I loved the way that the clones reponded to the Chancellor as "Yes, my lord"... this was deep inside them all along.

I'll need to bring myself to watching attack of the clowns again at some point but isn't there a comment in there that they have their loyalty deeply ingrained into them or something similar to that? I really do need to watch all of those films again. And more Star Wars: clone wars is clearly needed! :)

Maybe concentrating too hard on flying?

Perhaps. it didn't really feel like it though. The ship would go in a straight line if you didn't do anything I'd have thought and it wouldn't take long to force blast them off.

Otherwise it becomes a 15.

I was thinking that but then they show the bodies all over the place and the kid getting shot down by the clone troopers. It seems odd that they could do it and not talk about it.

[twicedead.livejournal.com]

Yeah, it was great. I was getting hugely distracted in that scene though by trying to work out what the hell the performance they were watching was. I'd got as far as huge balls of water with things swimming in them and occasionally jumping from ball to ball. Its not important what it was but it seemed kind of cool.

They were mon calamari (like Admiral Akbar) dancers in zero-g balls of water with streamers, singing opera.

[sea-of-flame.livejournal.com]

And as before I loved the manipulations of palpatine in his rise to power. I wasn't overly keen on the apprenticeship of Anakin but that's because it was a one on one scene and... Gah! sea_of_flame, you've made me thinking slashy thoughts about that scene because the scripting and acting was about as good as the love scenes. :)

Hehehehehe...told ya!

But you did miss mentioning one of the very blatent visual echoes to the later films - Luke's aunt & uncle standing in the evening light at the very end, looking out on the twin moons (suns?) of Tattooine - almost precisely the same backdrop as at the start of Episode IV, when Luke's daydreaming.

[twicedead.livejournal.com]

It was the binary sunset.. all over again

The return of Mouse Droids

Padme's hair

[chrisvenus]

And as I mentioned on another journal I think you also had the clone trooper armour going a lot more towards the ANH/RoTJ styles - those on Kashyyyk definitely reminded me of scout troopers a lot and some of the other troopers had the helmets much more like the stormtrooper ones. Must not spend lots of money on storm trooper or clone trooper outfit though... :)

[chrisvenus]

Ah yes, and to top your observation the music they were playing was, I believe, Luke's theme which was almost certainly the very same piece of music as ANH. But yeah, I noticed it at the time, there were so many though (but I can't remember any more very visual ones) that I wasn't going to try to list them all. :) That's somethign to do while watching the DVD with all your star wars geeky friends. :)

[quisalan.livejournal.com]

I have come round to the idea that Palpatine was his father now.

However... a couple of niggles.

Why in TESB does Yoda have to explain to Obi-Wan that "there is another" after Ben states that "that boy is our only hope"? Why doesn't he react when he gets a message from Bail Organa's daughter in the presence of Luke?

Leia has the same bad hair as her mother at times. I found that traumatic.

The massacre in the Temple was just right, and gave me chills.

Like Caroline said, the fall to the Darkside was just a bit... er... clunky.

And I want to know: how did no-one notice Annakin and Padme cohabiting?! Really?!

[twicedead.livejournal.com]

I have come round to the idea that Palpatine was his father now.

Not directly his papa only... he basically calledon the power for Anakin to appear somewhere, methinks.

Why in TESB does Yoda have to explain to Obi-Wan that "there is another" after Ben states that "that boy is our only hope"? Why doesn't he react when he gets a message from Bail Organa's daughter in the presence of Luke?

He knows who she is, but he just doesn't think she's a serious contender for smiting Vader.

Leia has the same bad hair as her mother at times. I found that traumatic.

Hurrah!

And I want to know: how did no-one notice Annakin and Padme cohabiting?! Really?!

Well, this was the only time they had done it, previously they had been sneaking moments together during the war, they had been separated for the last 7 months or so. And now Anakin was a Knight, the Jedi Order didn't keep tabs on where he was sleeping. Obviously her handmaidens knew.

[secondhand-rick.livejournal.com]

I did like the fact palpatine told him that he had killed padme to complete his journey to the dark side. The anger and whatever were great tools. I just didn't like to see darth vader throwing his hands to the sky and screaming "Nooo!!!!!" in a really whiny teenager kind of way.

I agree.

And to go a step further, I think Lucas missed something here. During the blather with his chick before Obi Wan kicked his ass, Anakin's giving it large about offing the Emperor and ruling the galaxy. He's full of piss and vinegar at that stage.

I'd suggest it would have been better if rather than giving him a spot of teen ansgt on being told he'd butchered his onetruelove, he'd been seen to break; not with a big blouse cry of 'Noooo!', but inwardly, quietly, crumpling. Perhaps with a dropping to the knee. Follow that up, after a pause, with a sullen: "What would you have of me, my master?" or some such, especially from the subordinate kneeling position, and it shows better how he becomes the obedient servant (who will admittedly rebel in that last call).

[twicedead.livejournal.com]

*nods* that would have been better.. rage, then crumpling.

[quisalan.livejournal.com]

I would have been better, but I think it would have been too subtle :(

[quisalan.livejournal.com]

(as in too subtle for George Lucas, rather than too subtle to work. This is the man that had a balcony scene of "I love you!" "I love you more!")

[quisalan.livejournal.com]

And a completely random comment.

Were there any of the lightsabre fights where the Jedi Didn't pull weapons first?

i.e., Obi Wan and Annekin pull before Dooku, Mace before the Emperor, Obi Wan before Vader...

Just something odd since the Jedi I thought were supposed to be passive and receptive, and the Sith were passionate, aggressive and warlike?

[chrisvenus]

ACtually I noticed Obi Wan pulled before anakin very consciously. MAce and the boys before palpatine was more understandable because at the end of the day he was an evil sith and was going to put up a fight so best to be ready. With anakin and obi-wan I like to think that Obi-wan was hoping not to have to fight anakin still at that stage. Against dooku I hadn't really noticed. I suspect because I was too busy spotting parallels to RotJ. :)

Thanks for pointing out that it wasn't just the one scene that I noticed. :)

[lanfykins.livejournal.com]

the Jedi I thought were supposed to be passive and receptive

Jabba knew better.

'Talk rather than fight? He is no Jedi.'

Just poked my head in here to see what folks were saying about the film.

[(Anonymous)]

I also picked up on the "woah, Palpatine is Anakin's father, in a mystical sense" vibe. Which was cool.

I then thought how it was really cool for Lucas to set that up, but then not have any explicit "Anakin! I am your father!" moment.

I then realised that the fact that Lucas didn't have a big, climactic revelation of that secret implies that Palpatine isn't Anakin's Force-father after all. Lucas is not a subtle man.

Other thoughts: Holy god, Anakin. You've only served the Dark Side for a day and you're already saying to Padme "join me! We'll overthrow the Emperor and rule the galaxy together!" I know you've just had a major fall from grace and have learned the sweet taste of treachery, but would you like to try to work for the Emperor for at least a week or two before you start betraying him?

As for you, Palpatine. Don't tell your new Frankenstein "by the way, you've killed your one twue wuv". It won't get a good reaction. Say "Obi-Wan and Yoda kidnapped and killed her". It fits the facts and means Vader will be far too busy hunting them down and killing them to betray you for, oh, at least a couple of weeks.

I wish there was a scene where Obi-Wan slaps his forehead and says "of course! Restoring balance to the force means restoring balance to the force, not solidifying the absolute dominance of the light side!"

Finally: Did anyone else get the impression that Lucas was playing this one for laughs? I don't think even he can take Star Wars seriously any more.

- Wart.

Re: Just poked my head in here to see what folks were saying about the film.

[twicedead.livejournal.com]

I wish there was a scene where Obi-Wan slaps his forehead and says "of course! Restoring balance to the force means restoring balance to the force, not solidifying the absolute dominance of the light side!"

Not true.

Balance to the force is the dominace of the Light Side. Lucas has stated this in a number of interviews. The light side is actually in balance, a balance of life and death. The Dark Side is a force of unbalance; of life over-abundant and death everywhere.

Anakin brought balance to the force by killing the Emperor and destroying the Sith, he just got lost along the way.

Re: Just poked my head in here to see what folks were saying about the film.

[chrisvenus]

All good points. The anakin trying to betray the emperor before he's even started makes some sense. Anakin knew what he had done was wrong and he knew that palpatine was evil. He was not being his apprentice because he believed in the same ideals but because he was after something.

Similarly when palpatine told him that he had killed padme it meant that Anakin had crossed that one line that he would never cross. He had killed the only person who really mattered to him. As somebody else said elsewhere this crushed him inside and that was the exact point that anakin died and the vader we know was born. If anakin had gone seeking yoda or obi-wan he might have heard the truth. He might not have believed but there would be some doubt. As it is his guilt and anger with himself fed the dark side in him and just increased his power, exactly what the emperor wanted. Also it did more for not being betrayed than I think you give it credit. He offered to rule with padme because he loved her. With her dead he had nobody else to rule with and his ambitions died with her. The next person he says that to is his son who very much plays the padme roll to vader.

And lastly yes, I really hope he was playing it for laughs. Otherwise the fact that there were several moments the cinema burst into laughter is rather embarrassing. He did do this to a certain extent in attack of the clones with the droids playing some comedy rolls. There it was done awfully though. :(

[hsenag.livejournal.com]

One obvious reason to use the term 'younglings' for kids being Jedi-trained is that it emphasises that they have given up their families.

[http://users.livejournal.com/_yakumo_/]

massively offtopic.

ffvii ps3 tech demo clip for u:
http://www.gamershell.com/download_9248.shtml

(tons of other small clips http://www.gamershell.com/articles/912.html )
higher r z clips on gamespy.com but they dont have the ffvii tech dem.
tbh they're are much nicer looking ps3 things about (like ut2k7) but that's not the point :)

[chrisvenus]

Square are cruel! I would buy a PS3 just for FF7 re-rendered with all the latest shiny graphics. :(

It was very shiny though. :)